Having good manners in asking about knowledge

At times while seeking knowledge or being involved in Islamic work, some students ask questions, feeling that this is the “M.O.” of a student of knowledge. No doubt that asking questions is a part of learning, however it is neither the first part nor the most important.

Several of the pious predecessors are reported to have said that knowledge has steps; the first is silence, the second is attentive listening, the third memorization, the fourth acting according to that knowledge, and the fifth spreading it. Another important principle stated by them is that knowledge is not passed on through mere questions and answers, asking for fatwa, or insistently prying for replies. Knowledge is passed on through study and review, questions and answers merely help solidify that knowledge.

Many people ask questions and are surprised at the reaction they get from those that they ask. Not every one who asks a question necessarily tries to annoy or incapacitate the person of knowledge they are asking. There are some however who ask not to particularly ask, but instead to show that he or she knows what they are asking about, show off to those around them that the scholar is ignorant of something that they have knowledge of, or merely to annoy the shaykh being questioned.

Some people ask questions saying such things as “I know such and such thing is correct, I just want to know why?” or “Such and such is a fact! Isn’t that right?” or “People that have such and such problem are really bad, but those that follow [insert this persons particular understanding] don’t have that problem now do they?” Scholars have said that what is even worse than this is after a person asks, he answers the shaykh’s answer saying “yeh, I knew that” or “OK, I was just checking, I heard that before” or things similar to this.

These types of questions and others are clear signs of acting in bad character with the shaykh, as they are even worse signs of acting in bad character with God himself, not having a pure intention in seeking the knowledge which God sent down not to only be learned but to be followed and worshiped by.

Not everyone asking a question means to do one of the above, and some who do so outwardly may have good intentions. However the issue of good character when asking a question can be forgotten, and for this reason many of the pious predecessors would rebuke those who asked in a manner which was demeaning to the knowledge being asked about.

Imam al-Dhahabi records in his al-Siyar[11/177]:

…that Imam Malik was teaching in a study-circle of knowledge when he was asked about an issue of inheritance and so he answered the questioner with the opinion of Zayd ibn Thabit. At this a man named Ismail ibn bint al-Suddi said to him “What did Ali and Ibn Mas’ud say about this!?”

Imam Malik signaled the guards of the Masjid, who came after Ismail; he was too quick for them and escaped leaving his belongings behind him. The guards asked “What should we do with his books and the pen he left?” Imam Malik said “Find him and kindly ask him to come here. Be gentle with him.”

They brought him to Imam Malik who said to him: “Where are you from?”

Ismail replied “From al-Kufah.”

Malik said “So where did you leave your manners?”

“I only asked the question so as to benefit.” Ismail said.

Malik said “Ali and Abdullah’s virtue is not denied by anyone, yet the people of our land follow the opinion of Zayd. If you are amongst a people and you bring up things they don’t know then expect for them to confront you with things you dislike.”

Now we all ask “Well shouldn’t we discuss issues?” and the answer is yes. However every discussion should be done with manners, especially with those of knowledge amongst us. It is no less than a crime for you to ask about things that you already know wanting to show off or prove your personal virtue to the people, seeking to demean others through promoting yourself.

The Prophet, May God shower his graces upon him, has said

“He is not from us, the one who does not respect our elderly, show mercy to our youth, and does not recognize the rights of our scholars.”

– narrated by Ahmad and al-Hakim.

 

Linked: Ibn ‘Ashur’s Treatise on Maqasid

Ibn ‘Ashur, who was arguably one of the greatest scholars of the past century, followed in the tradition of al-Shatibi and al-’Izz with his book Maqasid al-Shari’ah.

Maqasid al-Shari’ah, a concise and intriguing work in its original Arabic, it is now available in the English from IIIT. For a review of the translation look here. Hat tip to Dr. Mahmoud El-Gamal who posts on reinvestigating legal objectives. He links to this article by Dr. Robert Crane, which mentions a bit about Ibn ‘Ashur and the Maqasid. The author cites the edition of al-Maqasid in Arabic saying:

“…His major work, first published in Arabic in 1946, was translated and annotated for a modern reader with incredibly thorough footnotes by Mohamed el-Tahir el-Mesawi under the title Ibn Ashur, Treatise on Maqasid al Shari’ah…”

While al-Mesawi’s edition is probably one of the better prints of the book, the footnotes are hardly “incredibly thorough”. There is however a another edition of this book which fits this description; the one annotated by Shaykh Muhammad al-Habib Bin Khujah and printed by the Ministry of Islamic Affairs, Qatar.

Bin Khujah (to my knowledge one of the last living students of Ibn ‘Ashur) has done an impeccable job of presenting the Maqasid of his teacher; servicing his knowledge, memory, and legacy.

This edition is printed in three volumes:

• Volume one: The biography of al-Imam al-Akbar Muhammad Al-Tahir Ibn ‘Ashur
• Volume two: Between the sciences of Usul al-Fiqh and Maqasid al-Shariah (Bayna ‘ilmay Usul al-Fiqh wa Maqasid al-Shariah); an introductory work on the relationship between these two sciences by Bin Khujah himself.
• Volume three: The Maqasid al-Shariah of Ibn ‘Ashur

The third volume of this set services the knowledge of the Imam; in doing so Bin Khujah depends on two of the earliest prints of this work, as well as the personal notes of Ibn ‘Ashur himself. He compares the two prints (in that the original manuscripts were not available to him), adds the author’s personal notes to the marginalia, as well as adding his own notes to issues he sees pertinent.

One of the major contributions that this edition make is the attribution of the texts referenced by Ibn Ashur back to their sources, including al-Shatibi’s al-Muwafaqat, al-Qurtubi’s Jami’, Ibn ‘Arabi’s Ahkam, as well as various works in fiqh and Usul. Ibn Ashur’s other seminal works are referenced as well, such as his tafsir al-Tahrir wa ‘l-Tanwir and his “Usul ‘l-Nizam ‘l-Ijtima’i fi ‘l-Islam”. At times Bin Khujah will even relate verbatim some of these referenced texts, in an attempt to give the reader more context of the original. This is in addition to explaining some of the terminology found in the book that might be lost on the non-specialist.

For those concerned with the area of business, finance, and economics, one of the latter portions of the book would be of interest “Maqasid ‘l-Tasarrufat ‘l-Maliyyah”. To give you an idea of the importance of this chapter he says:

As I mentioned in the previous chapter, the most important objective here is preservation and economization of this nation’s wealth. This nation’s wealth, whence viewed as a whole, is preserved through regulating the manners by which it is managed generally, in addition to the manners in which individual wealth is preserved and managed. Preservation of the whole depends on preservation of its components; the majority of Islamic legal principles dealing with wealth relate directly to the preservation of individual wealth, which in turn preserves the wealth of the nation; there being a direct correlation between the benefit of personal wealth and the benefit of public wealth in relation to the prosperity of the nation.

This section of the book is deserving of further analysis by Muslim economists, in that (in the eyes of this non-specialist) it presents a far better survey of Islamic views related to economics than what has been presented so far.

In conclusion this is probably the best print of Maqasid al-Shari’ah so far, and an indispensible one at that in light of the value added by Bin Khujah’s service to the book.

Arguing about faith

From al-Shari’ah of al-Ajurri:

Ma’n ibn ‘Isa said: One day Malik ibn Anas exited the Masjid while holding my hand. A man named Abu al-Jiriyyah came up to him (He was accused of Irja’a).

He said to him “O Abu Abdullah, hear from me this, I will tell you something, establish proof against you, and inform you of my opinion.

He [Imam Malik] replied “And if you overpower me?”

He said “If I overpower you, then you follow me.”

Malik said “So then what if another person comes along, and overpowers us both?”

He said “The we follow him.”

Malik, May God have mercy on him, said “O slave of God! God sent Muhammad with one religion, yet I see you transfer between religions, going from one religion to the next. Umar ibn AbdulAziz said “Whoever makes his religion an object of argumentation will do alot of transferring.”

In another narration in al-Shari’ah:

Hisham ibn Hassan said: A man came to Al-Hasan saying “O Abu Sa’id, come so that I can argue with you about religion.”

Al-Hasan replied “As for me, then I’m certain about my religion. If you have lost yours, then go find it.”

The fourth duty

One of the deepest pieces I’ve read in a while:

Al-Ghazali on the duties that follow knowledge.

The fourth duty:

Guarding oneself from the differences of the people; their differences only causing confusion and uncertainty. The heart has the tendency - in the beginning - to sway towards everything that is presented to it, this being especially true for paths leading to laziness and idleness. Because of this, it is not permissible for beginners to follow in the footsteps of those in their final stages.

Some have said: “Whoever saw us in the beginning became a Siddiq. And whoever saw us in the end became a Zindiq.”

This is because in the end their limbs declined in action, except those acts of worship connected to the obligatory. They replaced superoragtory acts with heartfelt contemplation, with predominant ponderance leading to ultimate consciousness.

The heedless would attribute them to lethargy and laziness. Allah says:

وَتَرَى الْجِبَالَ تَحْسَبُهَا جَامِدَةً وَهِيَ تَمُرُّ مَرَّ السَّحَابِ

“See the mountains? You presume them stationary, yet they move as the clouds do through the sky…” 27:88

 

Signs you might be in a cult

Signs you might be in a cult

 

Tariq Nelson has a post in which he lists some of the “Signs you might be in a cult”

What I thought I would do is present some statements from the scholars of the past that reiterate and substantiate the points that he mentioned, in hopes that brothers and sisters that have that mind set might come to the realization that this is not just “unbeneficial speech” from some “non-specialist” or “someone not in contact with the scholars”.

This against my normal methodology in post quotes, in the past I usually refrained from posting the references so as prevent “cut & paste” Ijtihad from those that have never read a book much less attempted to learn the language that the books were written in. However here I felt that mentioning the references would be of more benefit than harm.

To be fair, and so that no one can try to use this post to declare “WE are not a cult!”; I have tried to quote a pertinent verse, hadith, or statement of one of the Sahabah, then mention quotes from a different scholars from the past. I do hope that the message here rings through, and not the names of the people quoted.

After some of the quotes I mention The Bottom Line so as to make it a little easier to understand.

Sign #1: Isolation from society

A hadith:

The Messenger of Allah said :
“The believer who mixes with the people and has patience in spite of their annoyances is better that he that doesn’t mix with them and doesn’t have patience in spite of their annoyances.”

Narrated by Ahmad and Ibn Majah

He also said:
“The believer is cordial; there is no good in one who is neither cordial nor sociable.” Narrated by Ahmad.

Ibn Taymiyah says (24/170):
The scholars from the Sahabah and the Tabi’in and those after them followed the command of Allah and his Messenger … They would debate in issues in a sincere and consultative manner, although they may differ in an issue in application and knowledge, the love and sanctity of brotherhood remains. Differences in rulings are more numerous than can be counted.
If every time two Muslims disagreed on something they abandoned each other (made Hajr of each other) there would be no sanctity or brotherhood left amongst the Muslims.

He also says (16/313-317):
The Messenger was sent with guidance as a mercy for all creation… He teaches them, guides them and mends the hearts, showing them what is best for them in this life and the next, not taking payment for this. This is the description of all the Messengers … and this is the path of those that follow him.

He also says (3/158):

He orders them with patience in the face of adversity, thankfulness with prosperity, pleasure in divine decree, and calls them to the best of character and the best of actions.
They believe in his statement “The best of believers is the best of them in character”
They encourage each other to connect with those that cut them off, give those that prevent them, and forgive those that do them wrong. They command filial piety, keeping family relations, being a good neighbor, and doing good to orphans and the poor…
They forbid pompousness, pride, transgression, and self-importance over others (whether they have the right to or not).
They command the best of character, and forbid the worst of it.
All that they do in this regards or in other than it, they follow the Book of Allah and the Sunnah in doing so.

The Bottom line
Muslims are a community. They come together in obedience and separate with disobedience. Matters of valid disagreement are debated kindly and left as is. If not there would be no community left in the end.
You will know those that follow the Prophet by their fruits.

Sign #2: Absolutism/Literalism

A Hadith:

The Prophet said:
“None of you should pray Asr except in the area of Bani Qurayzah” The time for Asr came in while they were on the way there so some of them prayed. Others said: We won’t pray until we get there. Others said he didn’t want that from us, we are praying now. This was later mentioned to the Prophet and he did not act harshly to any of them.
Narrated by al-Bukhari (3810)

Ibn Hajar relates in Fath al-Bari (1/182):

Al-Qurtubi said: From this hadith we see … that one group did not act harshly against the other while there was room for Ijtihad and their objectives were good…

Ibn Taymiyah (Majmu 28/P.429) says:

“The reason that the Khawarij appeared was due to the actions of Amir al-Mu’minin Uthman and Ali and those with them; those actions which involved various types of interpretation. They could not handle this, so they made issues of Ijtihad, even good deeds, they made them out to be sins. They made sins out to be disbelief. For this reason they did not appear in the time of Abu Bakr and Umar, due to those those which involved various types of interpretation not having appeared yet.”

The bottom line:

A group of Muslims went astray because they could not comprehend legitimate and valid Ijtihad made by scholars. They then not only declared them to be sinful or disbelievers, but all those that follow them as well.
A person should not discount valid Ijtihad. If he does not know if it is valid or not, he should stay quiet and not declare others sinful for following what they believe to be valid ijtihad.

Sign #3: Loaded Language

An Athar:

It was narrated from Ali:
The truth is not known through men. Know the truth; you will recognize its people.

Ibn Taymiyah says (28/227-229):

It is not for anyone to dictate love or hatred, praise or dispraise, enmity or affability, prayer or curses, based on names other than those that Allah himself gave. Such names are those like tribal names, names of cities, Madhahib, and Turuq of different shayks and imams, in addition to all other names that are used to distinguish oneself. He who is a believer then he is treated with love and respect regardless of the group he is from… and the one who is both believing and sinning at the same time is shown the same love and respect in accordance with his faith and disdain in accordance with his sinfulness….

He also says (20/163-164):

People are not distinguished between by anything other than Revealed texts. When the go back to their presumptions then each one of them will take what he presumes. From here it is known that the misguidance of those that innovated a path or belief thinking that one’s faith is not complete except through it, while knowing that the Messenger did not mention this and it is indifference to the texts, then this is an innovation according to all Muslims.
…Because of this you find people that love some people and hate others according to their desires, not knowing the meaning of their actions nor having evidence for them. They show love and hate according to these unrestricted terms that were not related from the Messenger or the Salaf authentically, without understanding their meanings, nor having knowledge of their correlations and implications….
It is not permissible then for anyone to place a person on a pedestal calling to his path, loving and hating according to that, nor it is permissible for them to do so according to some form of speech loving and hating according to that, unless it is the speech of Allah and his Messenger which the Ummah is agreed upon. These [previous] actions are the actions of the People of innovation (Ahl al Bida’), those that prop up a person or form of speech and divide the Ummah according to it, loving according to it or their ascription to it and hating similarly…

The Bottom line
Just what Ali said above.

Sign #4: “Confession”

A verse:

Allah says

“Verily those that divided their religion and were partisans you are not from them in the least…” (anfal:109)

Ibn Taymiyah (Majmu al-Fatawa 28/7-19) says:

“It is not for any person to take an oath or agreement from anyone that he will agree with him in everything he wants, supports him and those that he supports, and be an enemy to his enemies. Whoever does this then he is like Genghis Khan and those like him who make those that agree with them protected friends and those that disagree transgressing enemies; Instead they are to give their allegiance to Allah and his messenger to obey Allah and his messenger and do what Allah and his messenger have ordered …
… this is the basis that they should stick to, and then there is no need for their division and partisanship Allah says “Verily those that divided their religion and were partisans you are not from them in the least…” (anfal:109)
…therefore it is not for any teacher to take oaths from his students for this, nor for anyone else for that matter to take anyone from his students so as to attribute himself to him in an innovated manner (ala al-wajh al-Bidi’), neither to start with or for some benefit…”

 

Sign #5: Exaggerated claims

A verse:

({لاَ تَحْسَبَنَّ الَّذِينَ يَفْرَحُونَ بِمَا أَتَواْ وَّيُحِبُّونَ أَن يُحْمَدُواْ بِمَا لَمْ يَفْعَلُواْ فَلاَ تَحْسَبَنَّهُمْ بِمَفَازَةٍ مِّنَ الْعَذَابِ وَلَهُمْ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ }آل عمران188)

“Don’t think that those that are joyous about what they have, and love to be praised for things they didn’t do, don’t think that they are saved from punishment; for them is a painful punishment” Al Imran: 188

A hadith:

“He who seeks knowledge so as to argue with the ignorant, compete with the scholars, and cause people to turn their sight towards him, then beware of the fire, the fire!” Narrated by Ibn Majah

Ibn Taymiyah says (35/69-70):

As for the Siddiqun, al-Shuhada, and the Salihin (righteous) then they are not infallible. This is affirmed in the issue of sins. As for those things in which there is Ijtihad, then at times they are correct and at times they make mistakes. So if they make ijtihad and are correct they are rewarded twice; if they are mistaken then they receive one reward for their ijtihad, and their mistake is forgiven.
People of Misguidance make mistakes and sins to be correlated; you will find them at times going to extremes about people saying that they are infallible. At other times they are despondent about the same people and say that they are transgressing through their mistakes.
The people of knowledge and faith do not claim for some infallibility nor do they brand others as sinners.
From this issue many of the deviant and innovated sects formed.

 

Sign #6: Groupthink

A verse:

(فَاتَّقُواْ اللّهَ وَأَصْلِحُواْ ذَاتَ بِيْنِكُمْ)

“Fear Allah and mend affairs amongst yourselves…” al-Anfal:01

A hadith

Bukhari and Muslim narrate from Jabir that once during a battle one of the Muhajirum pushed one of the Ansar.
So the Ansari called “O Ansar!”, so the Muhajiri then called out “O Muhajirun!”
The Messenger of God heard this and said:

“What is it with this call of Jahiliyyah (Ignorance)?
… Leave it, for it is rotten!”

So even though these titles were bestowed on the companions of the Messenger by God himself, they became blameworthy when they were used for dividing the Muslims and causing dissension.

Ibn Taymiyah says (3/414):

It is obligatory for people to give up argumentation in these issues …and stop testing the Muslims with them. This is an innovation which is indifferent to the way of Ahl al Sunnah wa Jama’ah.
Causing division in the Ummah and testing it is something that Allah and his Messenger did not order, such as saying to a person “Are you a shakili or Qarfandi?” These are invalid names with Allah has not revealed any authority for, they are not found in the Book of Allah and the Sunnah of his Messenger nor in the known narrations from the Salaf…
It is obligatory for a Muslim when he is asked about that to say: I am neither [this nor that], I am a Muslim that follows the Book of Allah and the Sunnah of his messenger…”

Sign #7: Abuse

(كَبُرَ مَقْتاً عِندَ اللَّهِ أَن تَقُولُوا مَا لَا تَفْعَلُون * يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آَمَنُوا لِمَ تَقُولُونَ مَا لَا تَفْعَلُون َ)

“Oh you who believe, why do you say that which you don’t do? Despised by Allah is that you say that which you don’t do.” Al-Saff: 2-3

A group of people came to al-Imam AbdulQadir al-Taghlabi asking him to narrate to them and teach them fiqh. He refused to do so, and when he was asked why he said: “Those types of people use knowledge to gain the Dunya, and learn the issues of disagreement to take what they want according to their desires.”
Because of this many of the scholars would say: A person that takes weak opinions and rules by them according to his desires then he is a person of misguidance.
Knowledge is like a sword, give it is pious person and he will fight with it in Allah’s path. Give to a wretched person however, and he’ll commit highway robbery and harm the people.
(From Ghidha al-albab Sharh ManZumat al-Adab)

Sign #8: Denial of Problems

A verse

Allah says:

(يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ كُونُواْ قَوَّامِينَ بِالْقِسْطِ شُهَدَاء لِلّهِ وَلَوْ عَلَى أَنفُسِكُمْ)

“Oh you who believe: Be diligent in justice, witnesses for Allah, even if against yourselves…” al-Nisaa:135

The Imam Abdul-Rahman Ibn Mahdi, from the greatest Imams of the Salaf (died 135) said:

“The people of knowledge mention that which is for them and that which is against them. The people of Innovation only mention that which is for them.”

Ibn Taymiyah mentions the above statement, saying before this (al-Jawab al-Sahih 6/343):

“…they accept those things that are true even if they are troubling and could be used by those that differ with them against them…”

Whats your sign?

Narrated in the Sunan of al-Tirmidhi & Ibn Majah, as well as the Musnad of Ahmad from Shaddad ibn Aws that the Messenger of God said:

Clever is the one that takes himself to account and works for that which comes after death. The incapacitated is he who allows his soul to follow its desires, expecting God [to fulfill his hopes].

Some of the pious predecessors would say:

From the signs that God is displeased with his servant: is that he’ll be seen busying himself with things that do not concern him directly; seeking Paradise without actions; sinning and waiting for intercession.

…Allahumma Ghufranak…

Linked: Caplan on “The Religious Gender Gap”

On a chapter by Rodney Stark and Alan Miller on the religious gender gap:

Caplan concludes “Long story short: Women are more religious than men by virtually every measure in virtually every culture.” Those that admit the gender gap exists propose that this is due to socialization, and as such it should be larger in more traditional societies, smaller in least traditional ones.
Survey says: Dead wrong. Authors attribute it to risk preference. Caplan’s take:

Can I do better? I think so. My story has two building blocks:

1. Men and women have different cognitive orientations - a difference that is in large part genetic. As the Myers-Briggs personality test powerfully confirms, men are more Thinking, and women are more Feeling. (Or if you prefer the Five Factor Model, men are less Agreeable).

On a deep level, then, men are more inclined to want some hard proof that religious claims are true, while women are more willing to take religious teachings on faith because they sound nice. Burn me at the stake if you must, but it’s true.

2. As the great Timur Kuran persuasively argues, social pressure leads to “preference falsification.” If other people hassle you for lacking piety - as they do in traditional societies - people will pretend to be pious even if they aren’t. The weaker the social pressure, the more sincere people become.

In traditional societies, then, men keep their irreligion to themselves and pretend to be as religious as women. (As Kuran emphasizes, preference falsication also inhibits communication, so men who would be open to irreligious arguments are less likely to ever hear and adopt them).

As traditional mores break down, however, men feel freer to be themselves - and share their doubts with others. In contrast, since their piety was relatively sincere from the start, women don’t respond much to the fall in social pressure.

If you find my position offensive, you’re probably not alone. The Kuranian upshot, however, is that even if I seem to be the only adherent of my theory of the religious gender gap, I’m probably not alone either. As long as social pressure exists to disbelieve what I’ve said, a lot of people who agree with me are going to pretend to be as offended as you are.

Related:

• The “hadith of deficiency” and “the best of women”
• Al-’Asma’i on Intellect
• Institutionalized Piety
• “…and nor is male like female…”
• The issue of “The male receives twice the share of the female…”
• Muslim Apple: A Hadeeth in Translation

Jesus on speaking badly

In the Muwatta, from Malik from Yahya ibn Sa’id:

That Jesus the son of Mary, saw a pig cross in front of him on the street.

He said to it: Pass in peace.

The disciples said: You speak like that to a pig?!

Jesus said: Yes, I fear letting my tongue getting accustomed to speaking badly.

You notice the splinter…

“You notice the splinter in your brother’s eye, yet forget the tree trunk sticking out of yours.”

This is a narration found in many of the books on Islamic Character, some mention it as a statement of some of the Salaf, others as a statement of Jesus, peace be upon him. Regardless, its deep.

It immediately came to mind after I saw the preview for this movie: Rampage

… more on it here & here as well.

This says alot to me about priorities. Priorities of the government as relates to Foreign Policy, and priorities of Muslims as relates to humanitarian causes.

A whole new world….

In one of the strangest and most surprising Athar I’ve read from one of the Salaf (and something that reminded me of Abdul-Halim’s Planet Grenada when I read it), Abu al-Shaykh Al-Asbahani in Kitab Al-‘Azamah (#921) and Abu Bakr al-Khallal in al-Hath ‘ala al-Tijarah (#124) record that al-Sha’bi (who died between the years 103-110) said:

“Allah has servants beyond Al-Andalus, the distance between them and al-Andalus like the distance between us and al-Andalus. They do not view that any of creation has disobeyed Allah. Their stones are coral and pearls. Their mountains are of gold and silver. They do not plant nor harvest, nor do they work at all. They have a tree that grows at their doorstep which bears fruit which is their food as well as another tree with large, wide leaves from which they make their clothing. ”

Now i have no idea about the authenticity of this narration back to Al-Sha’bi (*even though the isnad apparently looks unproblematic,*), but I found it interesting that he would mention a land that is as far from Al-Andalus as al-Andalus is from him in Al-Kufah.

Another thing that I found interesting was the description of the land in question. It reminded me of the early european reports about the natives of the Caribbean, and that the jewelry they wore was thought to be made out of huge pearls, when in fact they were fish bladders that had been blown up, dried out, and polished. The mention of their food is interesting as well, being that many native americans were in fact grazers and did not harvest crops; some not all.

Now seeming that the umayyad conquest of Spain took place around the same time that al-Sha’bi lived it would be interesting to know just how did he know that there was a land beyond Andalus? he obviously is not talking about Northern Europe, because its not the distance mentioned nor does that type of vegetation grow there.

Things that make you go hmmmmm…….

*even if we were to say that this narration was interpolated or concocted by someone later one, the fact remains that the books that record this narration are from circa 960-970, still a few hundred years before the discovery of America by Columbus *